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In the twisting, turning plot of Criminal, con artist Richard Gaddis (John C. Reilly) partners with the seemingly naive Rodrigo (Diego Luna) to cash in on a counterfeiting scheme. While in pursuit of an impressive payoff, Richard must deal with his estranged sister Valerie (Maggie Gyllenhaal) and stay on top of a game in which no one can be trusted.
Set in Los Angeles with a story that takes place in a single day, Criminal is helmed by first-time director Gregory Jacobs and produced by Steven Soderbergh and George Clooney. The screenplay is by Jacobs and Soderbergh, and based loosely on the Argentinean film Nine Queens.
In this interview, we joined the rest of the media to field questions to actor John C. Reilly. John has delivered a wide variety of roles throughout his career, having appeared in critically acclaimed films such as Gangs of New York, The Good Girl, and Magnolia, as well as lighter fare including Anger Management. His role in 2002's Chicago earned him Best Supporting Actor nominations from both the Golden Globes and the Academy Awards.
JOHN C. REILLY
Contributed by Michael J. Lee, Executive Editor
for Radio Free Entertainment
August 30, 2004
John: Hello. [bows to everyone] Hello, hello, hello...
Media: This is quite a new sort of role for you, isn't it?
Yeah. Well, I did a movie called Hard Eight years ago where I got to be the sort of student in the pupil/teacher relationship. So it was nice to be the mentor this time.
Are you a fan of con movies?
Yeah, I am. I think it has to do with the fact that I love games. I love card games, and I've always loved board games and stuff like that as a kid. And I think it's that part of your brain that's engaged in con movies. It's this "who's outsmarting who?" But I think what sets this movie apart from other con movies is that it gets this family dimension--this emotional thing that happens once I get mixed up with my sister. It takes it to another place that most con movies don't go to, you know?
It's never explicitly mentioned in the story, but what do you think is the backstory between estranged siblings Richard and Valerie?
I always thought of Richard as sort of an underachiever and an overachiever at the same time. He would fail at school, but he would be the guy who was selling tickets to the concert, you know? The guy who was seemingly failing at everything, but also getting by really well and taking advantage of situations. And in terms of the backstory between me and Valerie, the character Maggie Gyllenhaal plays, hopefully you can really feel it in our scenes together. I always imagined part of the anger that she has for me in the movie is the fact that I've been taking advantage of her since she was a little kid. Like you can see Richard just flicking the back of her ear in the back of the car when they were little kids, and stealing her lunch money, and hiding her toys, and having that dominant position as the older brother. And she's just had it. By the time the movie starts, she's just had it. I show up at her work and she's invited me to come there, and she says, "Get out! As soon as you're done, I don't want to see you!" And like I was saying, I think that really adds a lot to the movie, because the thing about a lot of con movies, almost all the relationships are false relationships. And what's really cool about this one is they are really brother and sister and they're really angry at each other. And they're fighting over their mother's estate. That happens in a lot of families when the mother or father passes away and money suddenly becomes an issue. If there are any problems in the relationship, they really rise to the surface.
Do you think the fact that he is a somewhat unlikable character makes it difficult for audiences to connect with the story?
Well, it's funny, most people say that they do end up rooting for him. Yeah, he does things that are not likable--taking advantage of old ladies, no matter how you cut it, is not a nice thing to do. But at the same time, anyone who struggles for a living, who's an independent kind of small-business man [humorously motions to all of us broke-ass reporters], I think can relate to Richard's plight. It's like him against the world. "I gotta make that next buck!" And even though he's chosen really despicable ways to get by, the fact that he's on that journey, you can relate to it. Like you kind of don't want him to fail even though he's doing terrible things.
Have you ever been the victim of a con yourself?
Not in the way Richard cons people. I think growing up as an actor and coming from Chicago and having a good sort of BS detector for phony stories has helped me from really getting taken. But, you know, emotionally maybe. Those are the more dangerous cons when you take someone into your confidence as a lover or as a friend and then they do something that you didn't expect them to do. Those are the ones where you really get burned. And to me, those are the cruelest cons in the movie. Yeah, it's not nice to take advantage of an old lady, but it's really cruel to take someone's most precious relationship--like my relationship with my younger brother in the movie--and use it and shatter it irretrievably. I think that's one of the cruelest cons in the movie. And Richard would do the same thing if he could use it to his advantage. So you can't have too much sympathy for him. But the name "Criminal." At first I was like, "Oh, that's a weird title for the movie. Kind of gives it away, doesn't it?" And then I thought, "No, it's perfect because it could describe any one of the characters as a noun. But as an adjective, it could describe a lot of their behavior too." So I think it's good.
Was Philip Baker Hall's character in Hard Eight a direct influence on your character in Criminal?
I honestly didn't think too much about Hard Eight when I was making it. Only when I read the script and I saw the dynamic of the two. But then, Diego is very different than I was as a younger guy. That movie was very different. Those people were not trying to trick people for money, they were just trying to stay ahead of the casino system. They were almost making an honest living in a way, using games of chance to stay afloat. Getting a free prime rib dinner on the house at a casino is different than faking like you've been hit by a car in a gas station for gas money. I had a lot to do with this movie, a lot to think about. So I wasn't really thinking about any other movies. I was just thinking about my staying in the moment, you know?
Do you have a favorite con movie?
Well I love all of Mamet's movies. I love House of Games. You know, that was really the first con movie that really got me. Like when all that stuff happens with the FBI in the bathroom and you realize it's fake. It was a real head trip, that movie. So hopefully we've accomplished some of the same surprises as they did in that movie. I love them all. I love The Grifters, and I'm flattered when people compare this movie. If not for those movies, Nine Queens probably wouldn't have existed, and this certainly wouldn't.
Did you see Nine Queens?
I saw it after I was done with this. I deliberately waited. I felt lucky that I hadn't seen it, because then I could just take my own point of view about the character and just play it as it was written and not through the lense of another.
How similar is the character in Nine Queens to yours?
Well, it's tough to say because I speak another langauge. It's very much set in the culture of Argentina. You should see it, I recommend it.
I saw it Sunday.
Oh you did? [jokingly] Well then what are you asking me for?
[laugh] We need your quote.
Well, I was more struck by the similarities in the plot and the motivations of the characters. This is a very different movie. You can't even really call it a remake because it really feels like a very personal movie for Greg and Steven in a way. It was a real hat trick to pull off, to take an original work and turn it into a personal work for you. I don't know how they did it.
You've played a lot of sympathetic characters in your career. Was it difficult for you to tap into Richard's unlikability, or was it fun for you to let loose?
No, it wasn't hard at all. I kind of had it with the cuddly stuff by the time the Oscars rolled around with Chicago and everything. I'm really proud of that movie, and that is a big part of who I am, too. I would like to think I'm a lot like Amos Hart. He's a really noble guy. But like any actor, you want to do something different. And as soon as you start to feel the window narrowing about what people think you can do, your first instinct is start elbowing at the corners. So that was a big confidence builder for me as an actor, the fact that Greg Jacobs and Steven Soderbergh and George Clooney saw me as an actor first. They saw me as someone with ability instead of the sum of my previous roles. That's sort of the lazy tendency of a lot of people that make films. It's like, "Okay, we need this kind of character, who's done this before? Get him to do it again!" And that is exactly what actors are pushing against. It's kind of a cliched thing to talk about, being stereotyped in that way, but it happens.
Do you think there is any nobility to be found in Richard?
It's like a guy who loves his children but every day he's a hostile takeover corporate lawyer or whatever. Is he noble or not? Well, he is noble to his family when he goes home, but when he's at work, that's not exactly noble, what he does. So it's a complicated thing. Deceitful as Richard is in this movie, he is in fact a very upfront, honest person with the people that he takes into his world. He says to Diego right from the beginning, "I don't want to be your friend. I don't care about you. All I want to know about you is what I need to know to make money, okay? So don't be surprised if it goes bad, if I try to trick you." And I say later in the movie, "What's with the raped virgin look? You know what I do for a living. I told you what I do for a living. What, are you acting surprised now? I was honest with you! Don't judge me now. I told you what I'm about. If you didn't like what I was about, you shouldn't have come with me."
In a brief scene, Richard checks a payphone for change. Was that your idea?
[laughs] Yeah. I did it a bunch of times and Greg's like, "I don't know, man, that might be too much. Maybe we shouldn't do it. Let's not do it for a few takes." And I was like, "Okay. You're going to end up using it, though." And sure enough, he did.
Can you tell us about your upcoming remake of Dark Water?
That's a movie I did with Jennifer Connelly. Comes out later this winter, and I'll be talking about that, for sure. But now we need people to show up on opening weekend for Criminal!
Are you working on any other projects at the moment?
No, just promoting this, and getting ready to do more of the same for Dark Water. And I'm in The Aviator, Martin Scorsese's new film, too, that's coming out.
What was your experience working with Martin Scorsese?
It was great, and I'll talk to you about it in December.
Being a successful con artist, Richard is a bit of a smooth talker. How long did it take you to nail his speech pattern?
I guess I don't think about it in a real literal way. I just try to immerse myself in the way the guy talks, and if something was not tripping off the tongue, I would ask Greg, "I'll say the same thing, but couldn't we change these two words around or take out this one adjective?" It was a process, and Greg was really open to that collaboration, like allowing me to bring some of what I felt about the character into it. And really, he tailor made this suit for me, and then we did small little bits after to really fine tune it.
Your co-star Diego Luna was talking about Los Angeles having so many populations living so closely together with little interaction. What is your own experience living in LA?
I live on the east side of LA. I don't think I could live in LA if I didn't live on the east side. I want to live in a place that's an accurate reflection of the world, you know? I want to see people of all races and economic backgrounds. I think one of the problems with Hollywood actors is that they fortify themselves in these castles on the west side, and I don't know how you can really be a truthful actor if you're not out learning about the human experience and getting to know all different people. And so I feel really lucky that I have that in the neighborhood that I live in.
So you know people like Diego's character?
Oh, yeah! Absolutely. You know, even though Diego is Mexican, I was the one showing him around my neighborhood on the east side. I was like, "Yeah this is my barrio, man, this is it! This is where I live! This is the cool place to go for tacos!" And he was like, "This is cool!" That's my world over there!
Do you notice any major differences working with first-time directors versus seasoned veterans like Scorsese?
You know, people ask, "What's the difference between working with an independent director and like a studio director?" And to me, you can work with someone who's on an independent movie who is not independent at all, because the money people are like, "You've got to cast this person, you've got to do this, this has got to mean something in foreign sales or we're not getting this movie made." That's not independent, that's doing what you're told. But in the same way, like working on something like The Perfect Storm--Wolfgang Petersen is an independent director. No one's telling him how to set up a shot or when he needs to be finished by. It's like working with Cecil B. DeMille or something. He's like the ultimate independent director. Independence is independence in your will, and your spirit, and your mind, and the fact that you're uncompromising in your artistic vision. And that comes in many different packages. It has nothing to do with the budget of the movie. It has to do with people's belief in the director. Film is a director's medium and it works best when it's a pyramid in that way--the director's at the top of the pyramid, not the producer, not the studio, not the financier.
Could you describe the experience of leaving a character like this behind "at the office" and going back to your own personal life?
It was interesting to shift gears, because it is a pretty dark life. As likable and funny as Richard can be, he's a very solitary, lonely man, and he's separated himself from virtually every relationship in his whole life. And even his relationship with his younger brother is this very narrowly defined, protected, not-very-real relationship. So that was a lonely place to be every day in that same grey suit, the weight of the world on his shoulders, those guys he owes the money to calling him all day, and that sense of desperation. That's tough to do every day, just emotionally. But, it's funny I had to remember going home at the end of the day, "Okay, you gotta stop at the red light. You can't just steal the change off the table that was meant for the waiter's tip." Because you spend your whole day feeling like, "Nothing applies to me. Yeah, yeah, screw you. Give me a cigarette!" And you had to remind yourself, "Okay, back into the law-abiding world now." It was interesting. But that's why I became an actor, to be able to go to those places. It's not always fun to be an actor. It's fun that you get to be doing what you love, but feeling upset is feeling upset whether you're pretending or not. Like Magnolia--those were a lot of very tough, emotional scenes. Why are you going to work to make yourself sad? Normally, human instinct is to stay away from that stuff, but you're like diving into it. And diving into this lonely place of this guy's world, I was glad when it was over, honestly. And it was easy to let this guy go because it was a tough road he was on, and it wasn't getting any better.
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