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KEVIN SMITH on 'CLERKS II'
Contributed by Michael J. Lee, Executive Editor
for Radio Free Entertainment
July 11, 2006
In 1994, writer/director Kevin Smith scored a surprise hit with Clerks, a small film shot on a shoestring budget populated by a cast and crew of close friends. The modest black and white project that followed the exploits of disgruntled store clerks Dante Hicks (Brian O'Halloran) and Randal Graves (Jeff Anderson) helped to usher in a new age of independent film, showing that the indie could in fact be entertaining, critically acclaimed, and even profitable. Since then, Smith has rattled off a series of films (Mallrats, Chasing Amy, Dogma, Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back, and Jersey Girl) that are roughly interconnected and feature recurring characters, the most notable of which are foul-mouthed pot dealer Jay (Jason Mewes) and his quiet, "hetero life partner" Silent Bob (Kevin Smith).
Twelve years after the debut of Clerks, Smith checks back in on the lives of Dante and Randal in Clerks II. Despite now being in their 30s, the chatty duo haven't done much with their lives, and find themselves flipping burgers at the bovine-themed fast food chain Mooby's, where they deal with a hot co-worker (Rosario Dawson), a nerdy fanboy (Trevor Fehrman), and more annoying customers.
In this interview, Kevin Smith talks about the making of Clerks II, from the evolution of Jay and Silent Bob to Rosario Dawson's fascination with the film's donkey-powered antics.
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The Interview
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MEDIA: Did you have any concerns regarding this project as a bona fide sequel?
KEVIN: My only mandate was it just has to be as good as the first one. I didn't want to shoot the moon and be like, "It's got to be better than f*cking Clerks!" Because I love Clerks. I don't want to out-do something I did. Like why compete against myself? But it had to kind of stand side by side with the other one. And I think time was on our side, because it's not like we did it the next year. We did have twelve years between the two, and I think it does stand very well on its own next to Clerks and honors it, while still kind of telling its own story without just simply being a retread of the same jokes. It would have been very easy to do a version of that movie where it's Dante going, "I'm still not even supposed to be here today!"
How much did it cost to make the original Clerks?
$27,575.
And what was the budget on Clerks II?
$5 million, this one.
So where does all that extra scratch go?
God, hopefully it's on the screen. If you didn't see it on the screen, then my stock answer is "coke and whores." You know, this time around, we paid everyone. On Clerks, nobody got paid. Everyone was doing it for free. So you pay people. You've got catering. We didn't have catering in the first movie. Everyone just ate sh*t at the convenience store. This time around, people actually make meals and whatnot. There's a wardrobe department, there's a prop department--all those things that come with making a movie that on the first one, we never had.
From their modest roles in Clerks, Jay and Silent Bob have grown into huge fan favorites. Are you surprised at how audiences have embraced them?
Yeah. For me, it'll always be surprising, because when Clerks first came out, you're talking about a movie that never played on more than 50 screens theatrically at any given moment--like it was a real arthouse release and whatnot. And [in] all the reviews for the movie, nobody really talked about Jay and Silent Bob...I didn't realize that the characters had any impact whatsoever until we were done with Mallrats and we took it for a screening at the San Diego Comic-Com in 1995. By that point, Clerks had gone to home video. And Jay and Silent Bob come on screen, and suddenly, the crowd goes nuts and starts applauding like that recognition applause. And I was like, "This is so f*cked up, nobody paid any attention to them when we played in theaters." But it was home video--that's where the movie found its real audience and whatnot. So it always flabbergasts me that those characters have lasted as long as they have, especially when it's like they're not doing anything new that Bill and Ted haven't done, Cheech and Chong haven't done, Bob and Doug McKenzie haven't done, Laurel and Hardy. You know? It's just people seem to like those comedy teams, I guess.
Some people tag your films as "controversial." Do you think that's accurate?
It's weird, they never occur to me as controversial. I just write about the stuff that makes me kind of laugh, and then other people go, "That's f*cking controversial." Like Dogma was the obvious example. People going like, "Clearly, you did it to piss off the Church." I'm like, "Well, did you see the f*cking picture?" It's so pro f*cking faith that no, it wasn't done to piss off the Church. It was just I like to mix up my spirituality with ass f*cking jokes. Apparently, that's a little controversial. So I don't know. It happens from time to time. Like we got in trouble with Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back to some degree. GLAAD came after us going, "This movie's homophobic." I was like, "Are you kidding me? This is the gayest straight movie ever made." There's one moment in the movie where the one guy says he sucked the other guy's c*ck. What's gayer than that? And then The Advocate, mercifully, at the end of the year, put us in their top ten. I got to turn around to GLAAD and be like, "See, I told you it was f*cking gay friendly!" So it happens from time to time. The last movie, [Jersey Girl], the big controversy was just like, "Why did you make it?" [laughs]
Do you feel that nothing is off limits as far as material for comedy?
To some degree. I mean, I'm not one of those people that can take it all the way. Like I can't make a rape joke. Feels really weird to me. Can't do it, can't find anything funny about the subject of rape. Although Sarah Silverman made an awesome rape joke I heard the other day where I was like, "Wow, it's funny." But I think she gets away with it because she's a woman. I can't do that. That's about the only place I can draw the line.
You've tangled with the MPAA before. Any drama with the rating Clerks II received?
I'm just shocked that we got an R as opposed to the NC-17. The NC-17 was something we were sweating, because we got the NC-17 on Clerks for language. Just for the things they talk about. And we went into the appeals process and got it overturned to an R without making any cuts. Then on Jersey Girl, for some reason, they gave us an R based on a conversation that [Ben Affleck and Liv Tyler] had in the diner about masturbation, which wasn't even like a crude conversation filled with colloquialisms. It was a rather clinical conversation more than anything else. And we had to go appeal that and got that overturned without making any cuts. On this movie, I was like, "We ain't escaping the NC-17. There's no f*cking way that they look at this movie and say it's an R without us fighting it. Even if we fight, they're still probably going to maintain that we're wrong." So I was gearing up for the jihad of all jihads--like the battle with the MPAA where I was going to go into the courtroom like Inherit the Wind style, or really take it into a Mr. Smith Goes to Washington kind of thing and just filibuster in the room until I could pass out and they would maybe give me the R...I was gearing up, man. I had all my references ready to go. I was like, "Godfather 2's got a donkey show in it, why can't we?" You know, that kind of thing. We screened it for them, they gave us an R without any suggested cut or anything. They just flat out gave us an R. And I was so delighted because it meant I didn't have to go in and rethink the movie or recut it or fight again. But after the dust settled, I was just like, "Who the f*ck gives this movie an R? There's a donkey show in the movie! There's a dude drilling a donkey! How does this happen?" But I was delighted.
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Were you worried that Rosario Dawson would have reservations about the movie after finding out about that infamous donkey scene?
Ironically enough, that's the scene that made her want to do the movie. [Executive producer Harvey Weinstein] gave us a list of six actresses that he wanted us to cast. And it was this list where you're like, "Are you out of your f*cking mind?" Like Rachel Weisz was on our list, and I was just like, "That chick just won an Academy Award for being in The Constant Gardener. What makes you think she'd want to be in Clerks, and let alone Clerks II?" Rosario was a name on the list, and I was just like, "Of all the people, she's least likely, because Rosario seems to be going places in her career. Why would she want to hitch her wagon to our falling star?" So when she said yeah, I was like, "That's f*cking nuts, man. She must have lost a bet with somebody." And then you meet her and you talk to her, and you find out that she's got real varied, disparate interests in film. Like she's not a careerist. She's not like, "I'm going to do this movie because this will lead to this, and this will eventually lead to the Academy Award." That chick just does flicks that she kind of likes. Like she [says] her biggest regret in film in her career was getting cut out of The Devil's Rejects, the Rob Zombie movie, because she loves horror movies, she loves Rob Zombie. She's just dialed into different sh*t than most other actresses are. She can sit there and talk about this bizarre, black and white, obscure comic book called Johnny the Homicide Maniac by Jhonen Vasquez. Most chicks don't know about comic books in general, very few checks know about Johnny the Homicide Maniac, very few chicks that look like Rosario are interested in comics at all. And you're just sitting there going, "Wow, she's kind of one of the boys." But when I was sitting there talking to her, I finally had to ask her, "Why did you want to do this movie?" And she was like, "I've always wanted to see a donkey show." And I was like, "You realize this dude's not really going to f*ck the donkey?" She's like, "I know that! But I thought it'd be kind of cool."
Any concerns about your wife, actress Jennifer Schwalbach, making out with Brian O'Halloran on screen?
I had no reservations about her kissing Brian O'Halloran. If she had been kissing Ben Affleck, I'd have been a little nervous, because there's a chance she looks at Ben Affleck like, "Well, I could trade up." But her making out with O'Halloran? [I felt] safe as a kitten.
Did you ever consider giving Ben Affleck a bigger role in Clerks II?
I tried to give Ben a bigger speaking part. I called him up, I said, "Dude, we're going into Clerks II, man. You want to be a part of it?" And he said, "After the last two years, I'm trying to stay out of movies. I'm trying to lay low and rebuild and whatnot. I'm getting ready to make my movie." Because he's making Gone, Baby, Gone. He's directing. So he's like, "I just prefer not to at this point." And I was like, "Dude, I totally get it, but it's weird because this is the first movie in ten years that I will have made that you're not involved with." And he was like, "You know what? That is f*cking weird. All right, I'm going to come out. I want to do something. No lines, though. I don't want to do any dialogue. I just want to be a guy who's eating at Mooby's or something like that." I was like, "Dude, that's fine, but I know you. I guarantee you're going to show up and you're going to want to do dialogue." He's like, "No man, I'm telling you, I don't want to do any dialogue." So he comes and we shoot his two reaction shots. That's all it was. And I'm like, "That's it, I got it." And he comes over to the monitor, and he's like, "Dude, I feel like I should say something!" And I was like, [mock exasperation] "F*cking of course you do, sir."
How did you put together the film's soundtrack?
Basically, whenever I put a song in the flick, it was whatever I was listening to on high rotation on my iPod. There's no new tracks, and it's not like there's a hit single or something like that. It's all catalog music. But it's just stuff that kind of appeals to me. I've been a big fan of King Diamond going back to high school days. Always loved the Talking Heads. I love that Smashing Pumpkins song. [The Jackson 5's] "ABC" is one of the most addictive kind of songs to listen to, until you have a kid. I had a kid (still have a kid!) and I played "ABC" for her once in the car, and she was like, "Again!" And I was like, "Right on! My kid's got my taste in music and whatnot." I played it again. "Again!" Played it again. "Again!" I listened to that song so many times in a row, I was just like, "I hate 'ABC' now. I can't listen to it." If you ever need to kick the habit of a song you've been listening to too much, play it for a kid on a repeat basis, man. Because f*ck, I've listened to so many songs repeatedly, "ABC" being the worst offender.
Any plans for a Clerks III?
Certainly not thinking of it now. Like let's say in this weird, twisted universe that when Clerks II opens, it makes $500 million, and I get the call from Harvey Weinstein going, "I need a Clerks III tomorrow." It couldn't happen. I couldn't do it. First off, I'd be like, "F*ck you, I made $500 million, I'm out of here!" But I can't imagine coming up with something. I mean, when I hit my 40s, maybe I'll think about it. Because Clerks was a story about what I felt it was like to be in my 20s, Clerks II is what I felt it was like to be in my 30s. If I'm in my 40s and I feel like I got something to say about that, I would immediately think of Dante and Randal. But right now, no plans whatsoever.
Thanks for your time.
Thanks, guys.
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